Over the past weeks we have published several views on the EU Remain or Leave debate. The first was from Christopher Jackson, a former MEP, explaining why he was going to vote Remain. Then we had two farmer’s views, Simon Wright, who on balance, felt we should Leave and then Frank Langrish who argued for Remain. A number of our readers have added their own comments.
Whichever side you are on, it is a momentous decision that we, as a country, are about to take and, either way, will affect not only our future but that of our children and their children long after this present generation has gone.
In many, many years of voting in every general election, bye-election and the last referendum on Europe, I have to admit that I am, for the very first time, and with just a week to go, as yet undecided which way my vote will go. And the politicians haven’t helped. Every day, it seems, one side or the other comes up with more outrageous claims, to the point where, if they are to be believed (and I stopped believing either side a long time ago) nothing less than Armageddon faces us, whichever way we vote. The Government appears to be tearing itself apart and one wonders how it can come back together after next Thursday, while the official opposition is headed (I hesitate to use the word ‘led’) by a man who wants to Leave but, if he is to keep his job, has to advocate Remain.
It is said that we get the leaders and politicians we deserve. What on earth have we done to deserve any of this lot? Our local MP is a campaigner for Remain and yet one of our District Councillors – from the same party – has Vote Leave stickers on the windows of the pub she manages (although on every other local issue she appears silent and invisible). The views of the other are not known, perhaps he is toeing the Downing Street line to Remain.
One thing seems to be certain, the case for Leave or Remain is not a clear cut one, there are advantages and disadvantages on both sides. For many of us, I suspect, it will come down to an issue of head versus heart: do we agree with the argument for staying in and having the economic advantages (with the individual benefits that could bring) of being part of the world’s largest trading area, or do we continue to regard everything that happens on the other side of the English Channel with the deepest suspicion and go our own way and make our own future without interference from foreigners, as we have done since 1066.
Either way, the result could well be a close run thing, so next Thursday, GO AND VOTE.
REMAIN or LEAVE, either way make your voice and opinion count – it matters.
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I haven’t heard many people make the positive case for the EU; everyone is a Eurosceptic apparently even many on the Remain side and the case is put entirely in terms of economics. But there is surely something to be said for the EU as a positive force for good. Countries such as Portugal, Spain and Greece – not to mention Germany – with troubled histories in the 20th century have been transformed into active democracies through engagement and trade with their neighbours. The former Soviet states are now brought into the fold. Peace takes time – generations- and requires commitment. If we committed to EU instead of taking a half hearted, suspicious approach to everything that came out of Brussels and Strasbourg we would have much to offer. Sadly, the whole debate has become sour and self interested and a lot of anger that many people feel, much of which has nothing to do with the EU is now feeding into the debate. The EU is a convenient whipping boy for our personal regrets, disappointments and insecurities. If we vote to Leave I shall feel a profound sense of loss, not loss of faith in what the EU has stood for – despite its manifest problems – but a sense of disappointment in my own countrymen’s unwillingness to make a contribution to the great and praiseworthy goal of peace in Europe through trade and engagement. The Leave campaign make much of the trade between Continental Europe and the UK and tell us that countries such as Germany will not deal with us any differently, but this is short sighted. Germany has invested too much in the EU to let it fail and they cannot treat our leaving as if it means nothing. Their economic interest will not trump their political interest. We cannot leave a club, decide we don’t want to play by their rules and expect the same privileges as those who are still members. Leavers like to portray themselves as ‘modernisers’ but I think they will find that in the modern world one has to be part of something bigger to prosper. They tell us, too that we are the fifth largest economy in the world. I’d like us to stay high up that table but the truth is we could easily slip down it. Look at this quote from a Chinese newspaper. “Perhaps Chinese people should forgive Britain’s confusing sentiment. A rising country[i.e. China] should understand the embarrassment of an old declining empire and at times the eccentric acts it takes to hide such embarrassment. Diplomacy has to be based on realistic recognition of the two countries’. Nothing gets printed in a Chinese newspaper without government consent. China wants to deal with a large trading bloc like the EU not the smaller one of the UK. Yes, they send students here for the world class teaching and they like our Queen and the pageantry and the history but they don’t see us a major nation anymore; they see us as trading on past glory. I want us to be part of something bigger because we have something to offer in the fields of law, culture, we bring the wisdom of a long history struggling for the values we cherish. We can contribute to the EU help our neighbours get beyond the immediate crises and be strong in the world. We have to life our eyes not bury our heads in the sand.
OUT . I do not want to be ruled by a dictator and my voice never heard again
How many of those who vote Leave on June 23rd will realise they are approving the same poisons of xenophobia and hatred that killed Jo Cox?
Do they really believe we belong to that kind of country?
Is that how they wish to live their lives – with narrowed mind and narrowed soul and total disregard for all those who died in two World Wars fighting for the freedom of Europe?
This is what Franklin Medhurst DFC (RAF 1939-46) wrote this week in a letter to the Guardian:
‘The only stable community in this universal upheaval has been the European Union, formed from the wreckage of a continent for which I and millions of others fought six years of war. I write as a former airman, having flown well over 2,000 hours against three despotic enemy nations. That victory for the democracies has given Europe 70 years of peace and security in a widely unstable world. The “leave” chancers are campaigning to abandon this steady progress, citing values false or irrelevant, while they have no plan of what to do after jumping ship.
If the nation should fall for this deceit I can only conclude that the lives of my comrades – Irish, Scots, Welsh and English – were lost in vain. They will be rattling their bones, wherever in the world they fell, at the loss of the beliefs for which they fought.’
Thank you for allowing me to add my comments which I will keep fairly brief.
have never had any trouble in deciding which way I shall vote. It will be to leave and I will tell you why. Do we want to continue to be dictated to by a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels who enact laws with little scrutiny by the MEPs, laws which we should ourselves be making? Do we want our schools, National Health Service and many other public services to continue to receive more and more pressure from lack of resources when billions of pounds are paid over to the EU for them to tell us how to spend any rebate we might get back.
The pressures on our services will continue to increase as long as control of emigration is not addressed. Th EU have markedly failed in this regard. We must have control of all emigration and particularly as it concerns non-EU citizens. Do we want to see our population increase to such an extent that our towns and cities will become overwhelmed. Many young people are already finding a place to live increasingly hard, and it will become worse as the population rises inexorably.
We are hearing all manner of startling warnings from the remain group that we shall all be doomed if we leave the EU. I believe in the longer term we shall not only survive but be a much stronger nation. There will of course be some difficult months ahead whilst the repercussions of having left the EU will reverberate around the world, but we have a stronger economy by far than the EU and would be able to withstand a few knocks in the shorter term.
We have to recognise that the EU is already falling apart. Greece is at breaking point. Portugal and Italy are struggling. The Euro countries are finding it difficult to manage their economies due to the disparity of each nation not having the freedom to devalue to adjust their economies. Do we want to be part of a sinking ship. I think not!
I believe strongly we should vote to Remain in the EU. This is not only because the experts most qualified to assess the risks of leaving think this is the best course for the future of Britain and all who live here but because it fits with everything my 83 years have taught me about the most helpful and satisfying ways of achieving good for the greatest number – which often means working collaboratively with others, from within, to effect needed reform and more wide-reaching benefits.
There is no need for me to repeat the overwhelming economic arguments for voting Remain or the innumerable contributions ‘migrants’ have made to the UK nor is there much point at this stage to decry the distortions regarding ways to ‘control’ immigration. (Means such as insisting that those doing the same job, whether British or ‘foreigner’, receive the same rate of pay– to stop unfair discrimination against locals less willing to accept below minimum wages– can be managed from ‘In’.) I do however dearly wish that the huge benefits EU membership brings to progress in the UK on such crucially important issues as climate change and the environment, and to the fields of education and science and certainly to our prized NHS had received the attention they deserve.
I count myself most fortunate to have grown up in a household where people of other countries and skin colours and cultures regularly shared family meals and to have shared with my husband careers mostly spent living in other countries amidst neighbours and alongside colleagues of even greater ethnic, religious and cultural diversity who shared an enormous respect for Britain despite its colonial past. The fewer years in Britain were spent largely with international students, the most memorable for me being the seven when I was director of British Council International Summer Schools in TESP (Teaching English for Specific Purposes) which typically brought some 70 participants from up to 40 countries, some of whom – like the Russians who had learned their excellent English from books and tapes and had never met anyone of another culture — still, 20 to 26 years later, via emails or visits to Rye, recall a (sometimes ‘the’) highlight of their lives and meanwhile have helped to send students and business and research links to Britain. The benefits of these kinds accruing to the UK, its economy — and its status in the world! — from other educational and exchange programs are innumerable and invaluable and should not be diminished by our opting out of a role which enhances our ability to influence European and global affairs.
Like so many others I am grieved at the tragic cost to Jo Cox and her family of her dedicated service to others. But she was right. And it is because I too have been fortunate enough to observe that building bridges is more helpful than erecting walls and that working together to extend common ground brings a more tolerant and peaceful organisation/society/world than pulling each other apart that I fervently hope enough others also vote Remain on Thursday.
I find most educated opinion formers will vote remain. I am being a simple country folk and ask.
Do I want to be ruled by Westminster or Brussels?
As for farming do we all want British food produced by British farmers for British consumers.
Do the educated opinion formers want local decisions made in Bexhill not in Rye, are they happy nationally to be ruled from Brussels.
I want to have a say in what happens locally and nationally. I vote leave.
Giving Greece, Spain and Portugal as an example of how well the European works is hardly a good example. All three are almost bankrupt.
I have a nightmare vision of the future political status in europe it could become a collection of states with a President – like America – and we would have a governer instead. Our royal family would become unnecessary and our traditions quirky and a bit of fun. In fact this reminds me of the Roman empire when they conquered britain and we know what happened to them eventually. We could all be plunged back into the dark ages again.
Britain is still much admired around the world and I cant see why we cant trade with the world as we did before the european union. As a trading organisation it worked well for us. Too many rules and regulations now.
I am conscious of my European heritage and the huge debt I owe to the language of Goethe and of Voltaire. I am a European, yet I shall be voting BREXIT.
Partly this is because I love our British sense of democracy, of justice in our own courts, and in our beautiful countryside, so greatly under pressure from new housing. Partly this is because of the ‘democratic deficit’ whereby our EU leaders are unelected and unaccountable.
No less a strand of thought is the despair of our European allies at our unwillingness to share the EU vision of a European superstate. Britain has continually baulked at closer political union, at fiscal integration, at adopting the euro, at accepting a European defence force. We have opt-out clauses right and left, and our way is not their way if we can help it.
Do we seriously think that if we remain in the EU, we will long be permitted to continue this charade? Do we seriously think that Frankfurt, Brussels and Paris will allow the freedoms demanded by the City of London to coin in clever money through manipulating financial markets. The financial transaction tax has already been proposed to clip London’s wings.
We used to be known as ‘perfidious Albion’ by our continental partners. Today, we are the misguided hypocrites, if we expect to gain the benefits of a single market, whilst losing influence as second tier members of the EU. Honesty compels us to put principle first and vote OUT.
Re Brexit, I won’t add any further arguments for or against as above there are enough comments of why people made their choice, rightly or wrongly. What I will say is, having voted remain, I find Tony Mulhollands’ piece most interesting in his arguments.
I would like to add a disturbing occurence which is one of the fall outs re Brexit. At the last Rye News on line committee meeting (weekly at the Adelaide at 10am) a person who lives in Rye joined us to flag up, as yet a possible isolated incident in Rye but happening across the country post Brexit: Foreigners (in this case the people are French and have lived and worked here for some time, also volunteering their expertise) are being told to ‘go home’. For many, England is their home.
We don’t expect it in Rye as mostly it is a friendly and accepting community but it happened and whoever thinks and said it should question their motives and attitude. Hopefully this was a one off and it won’t occur again, however, I felt it was important to bring it out in the open once we were told as keeping silent we become part of the prejudice. If anyone else has been abused in this way please speak out, we need to fight this negative undercurrent.
Heidi Foster
iWork regularly in Rye and all I have spoken alot about brexit and are worried about what will happen next and their children have friends all over the EU who are also worried, they all say it’s not good and will ruin what we have created and got used too.
Brexit voters voted for less immigrants but that is the only thing that will not change . They were to short sighted to see what would really happen to this country ,
It’s a disaster and every government party do not have a clue what to do
I am ashamed to be British